Advice to Jennifer Bunting, Jonathan Bunting and Marvin Maple

Family Abduction Cases are complex, especially when they are further complicated with allegations of abuse. With that said, rarely do these cases proceed with the best interests the family members involved. So here’s my advice to the Bunting, Maple and Baskin Family members as well as the local District Attorney involved:

1) Jennifer Bunting / Chrisi Maple — Support your grandfather only if he tells the absolute truth and testifies against any party that helped conceal him. Do not spend any of your hard earned money on his legal defense, that money should be for your future and the your brothers. Get psychological counseling immediatley from some of the top notch therapists that specialize in family abductions. There are several top therapists in the Bay Area. If you have the courage, you should be reunified with your biological parents and the therapist can help you with it.

2) Jonathan Bunting / Bobby Baskin — It is important that you keep an open mind regarding your parents. If you have your own children now, what a joy it would be to have them meet their grandparents. What happen to you was 20 years ago when our child abuse system was still in its infancy. Remember, at  7 years old you were the victim of a parental kidnapping or family abduction and the last thing you would want to to do as a young adult with a family is to not acknowledge that. You too should seek counseling.

3) Marvin Maple / John Bunting — At 72 years old, you will await a criminal trial with a prison term if convicted. The last thing you want to do is spend money for an attorney. If you really care about your children, you would plead guilty and testify against those that helped you and your wife 20 years ago. If it’s Faye Yager who helped you get phony identities and used her underground network such as allegedly Rosalyn Beasley in San Diego, then you need to provide law enforcement with that information. If you are looking for fame a fortune from this crime, then testifying against those that helped you is far better and more interesting than your story. I am certain there were legal alternatives before you fled and I certainly doubt that you exhausted them.

5) Tennessee District Attorney — You should not only seek parental kidnapping charges against Marvin Maple but prosecute those that aided and abetted in this crime. That has rarely or almost never been done before.

6) Mark and Debbie Baskin — As left-behind parents, you are the victims of this crime. I am sure having a future relationship with your children is your number one goal as well as seeing Marvin Maple prosecuted as well as any third party conspirators.


60 Responses to Advice to Jennifer Bunting, Jonathan Bunting and Marvin Maple

  1. Im Disgusted says:

    Just who, exactly, do you think you are? When you have the whole story, and I mean the WHOLE story, then maybe you can spout off, giving your asinine advice. It’s none of your business how these people choose to handle this. Get your own life, leave them alone.

  2. underwatch says:

    @ ImDisgusted – I’ve been following these “family abduction” or “parental kidnapping” cases for years. First of all, if you or your spouse’s grandparents kidnapped your children for 20 years, how would you feel? It really doesn’t matter what justification Marvin Maple or Sandra Maple had, but parental kidnapping is never justified. There are always reasonable and legal alternatives! Our judicial or legal system (family law/CPS/law enforcement etc.) in the United States should always be the sole legal alternative for determining custody of our children. It may not be perfect, but at least it doesn’t allow individuals like Marvin and Sandra Maple and any alleged co-conspirators such as Faye Yager and the Children of the Underground to self appoint themselves as “Judge, Jury and Executioner”. @ Im Disgusted, hopefully you have the intelligence to start to understand the true tenets of this horrible and heinous crime.

  3. CM says:

    Very good balanced advice!

  4. DanP says:

    The welfare of the child is paramount, above the rights of the parents, and above the law if necessary. If the parents were horrific, and I have not seen that side of the story yet, then I think the end justifies the means. Reasonable and legal alternatives? This country’s legal system can be absolutely horrible. That being said, I think the parents would have to be really horrible to the kids to justify kidnapping by a blood relative. I wonder what the kids think of the grandfather raising them? They were old enough to know….?

  5. Val says:

    Do you people think it would have been easier for the grandfather and grandmother to turn their heads and just let the system handle it? Of course it would have, however, they chose to get involved to protect their grandchildren, to them it looked like the system was failing the kids. They sold their house, changed jobs, changed their names, lost all contact with family (even through the death of his wife), home school the kids, put the kids through college etc.. when all they could have done and sounds like most of you would have done was just sit back and let the “system” take over. I’m sure as a grandfather he wasn’t willing to see his grandchildren be the top story on the 10 O’clock news and I don’t mean kidnapping???? Yeah Mr. Maple is a real bad guy. Like Dan P said the kids were old enough to know.

  6. Concerned says:

    What would you do if a relative, a child, was being abused by a parent and you could not prove it? This happens. I have seen cases where this has happened. Think about the protection of a very dear child – or children.

    These cases are not always as they seem and our legal system, like any system, is flawed.

    The mere fact that the father of these children was in the seminary may have been enough to blind authorities.

    The fact that neither of these adults remembers their parents indicates trauma — whether from the parents or the abduction — we don’t know.

    The fact that the grandparents had temporary custody raises some questions.

    The real point is no one outside of this knows enough to give the advice noted above.

  7. underwatch says:

    @ Concerned – “What would you do if a relative, a child, was being abused by a parent and you could not prove it?” — What I would do “Concerned” is to do everything in my power, as a law abiding American Citizen to work with our legal system and Child Protective Services System to ensure the safety of the children. The key here is to be a “law abiding American Citizen”. I have no sympathy for Marvin Maple and Sandra Maple because both of them had not exhausted their legal alternatives before they fled. As I had said before, the Maples played Judge, Jury and Executioner. What I have read is that they even accused the Baskins of “satanic ritual abuse”, a common ’80s false allegation made up as a “last resort” by custodial embattled parents, especially after they have spoken to Faye Yager, who sees “satanic ritual abuse” whatever that is, in most of her underground cases. In these “protective parent” cases where the children are taken underground, the party that loses custody of the children after a family court ordered evaluation is the one that usually takes the law into their own hands. That all said, what options do Jennifer and Jonathan Bunting as young adults and Marvin Maple in this ’70s have. In my opinion, the last thing they need is to use the services of the many underground attorneys and expert witnesses that would like to make them poster children for their own cause. My advice, encourage Marvin Maple to give up the names of the people to who helped he and his wife and leave the Jennifer and Jonathan out of it. They are young adults that need to more forward with their lives, reunify with the family that they kidnapped from. Another way to see it “Concerned”, what if your grandchild were kidnapped by your child or grandchild were kidnapped — would you have any sympathy for the kidnapper? Wouldn’t you rather see these cases in our legal system or at the very least, your case! And don’t think that could never happen to you!

  8. Celeste says:

    I think we should get Bobby and Christi’s side of the story.
    I’m reading in several articles that she’s hesitant to believe that the man that she’s called “daddy” for 20 years is guilty of kidnapping her and her brother.
    We may even want to get the parent’s side of the story too.
    @Concerned: if Marvin Maple was so concerned about the children being molested by their parents then why did he leave Bobby and Christi’s younger brother with them?
    It would have made a lot more sense to take all three children instead of leaving one of them behind.

  9. Wynn says:

    The brother and sister remember everything, which doesn’t bode well for their parents. The reason why Michael wasn’t taken was because he lived with the Baskins. Mark Baskin wanted to go to seminary school and the apartment they rented was too small, so they asked Debbie’s parents to take in their kids while he went to school. Apparently, it was inconvenient for them to take care of their own children.

    Since the youngest child was not yet school age, and had a learning disability, they first said no and then relented. They took the two oldest kids because they were in school and wouldn’t require 24 hour care. Taking the third child would have been too hard on them.

    The Maples did contact the Kentucky authorities to try and help Michael after they were told by the two older children of the problems. The Maples took these kids to get counseling at Vanderbilt hospital. One detective said that it was the clearest case of abuse she had seen, but you don’t see that quote in the news. The media doesn’t even know what they are writing about – it’s sad. This is a family tragedy, not a witch hunt.

    Mark Baskin filed a complaint against his own father when confronted with the evidence. The Baskins knew it and did not protect their children. They did not even rent a place big enough to raise all of their children. Why not? That’s the question you need to be asking. The Maples left their entire family behind to protect those kids because they promised the kids they would. The sacrifice they made for their grandkids was immense.

    The Baskins then sued the Maple family, including their own siblings for a million dollars because they wanted to know where their children were, thinking that the Maple family knew. They did not and the case was dismissed. They were and are after money.

    In due time, Jonathan and Jennifer will tell their story and their grandfather’s case will be dismissed. Just as the lawsuit against Debbie’s own family.

    • underwatch says:

      @ Wynn, in the other parental abduction recoveries, I am familiar with posts like yours. You state that the “abducted children remember everything” but I’ll bet you have no personal knowledge of this. Perhaps you are a past victim of domestic violence or abuse and since it happened or you believe it happened to you, then it must have happened to them. These cases are very complicated but one issue that will hopefully brought out in the “criminal case” against Marvin Maple is the emotional abuse inflicted on the victims, Jennifer and Jonathan Bunting at ages 8 and 7 from the parental kidnapping. What I urge you to do is to consider Marvin and Sandra Maple in 1989 when they committed this crime and went on the run or underground with these children and what horrible brainwashing they inflicted on two very innocent children. How would you tell 8 year old Christi Baskin and 7 year old Bobby Baskin that they now had new names? In home schooling them, how do you erase the memory of their parents for 20 years? — a memory that 20 years later these young adults would probably have little recollection of. This is the part of a parental kidnapping crime that some consider the most heinous form of “Family Violence” or if you define domestic violence as a crime against a women, then why would the emotional abuse against Jennifer Baskin not be a crime of domestic violence? And finally, if you are someone who is against domestic violence, then why would support Marvin Maple, an abuser and parental kidnapper in this case? This is a case about Parental Kidnapping and it is important that everyone including the Domestic Violence Groups, Protective Parents Groups and even the media when they will most likely hear some bizarre allegations by the defendant and his supporters keep the focus on that.

    • GetReal says:

      oh, puhleeze! sandra was a dominating bully and marvin was her puppet. sandra maple dominated her daughter and her children and was thoroughly insulted when mark and debbie moved to ky for him to attend seminary school. she volunteered to keep the children for the remainder of their school year, “so as not to interrupt their lives with a move”. she didn’t want michael because she didn’t want to put forth the effort in caring for a special needs child. she never once intended to let go of control and thought mark and debbie would relent to her twisted wishes and come back home to tn. the story the children told was that they’d gone on a tractor ride with mark’s father, their grandpa. far from the house, mack, (mark’s father), had to use the bathroom. he left the tractor and told the children to stay put, but they didn’t. they inadvertently caught a glimpse of him taking a leak behind a tree. when the children told, the whole thing got blown out of proportion by sandra. therein lies all the accusations of abuse.
      by the time sandra realized mark and debbie were really serious about the move, she’d become desperate to keep the children and started the nonsense about the abuse. the accusations were investigated and NO investigators found evidence of abuse, however, the children were obviously traumatized by the investigation and non-stop emotional probing at the hands of a greedy, selfish old woman. when things looked like they weren’t going in sandra maple’s favor, she then started accusing the family of devil worship. when that didn’t work, she started accusing the investigators of devil worship. afterall, this was during the frenzied testimonials of past regression therapy victims on all major network talk shows. being that, in addition to being selfish, sandra was also not very original or creative. when those allegations also fell through and the court ordered the return of bobby and christie back to their parents, sandra and marvin fled.
      mark and debbie baskin are outstanding parents, having since adopted a son. they are also wonderful members of their community and church fellowship. it makes me sick that mack baskin died with this horrific accusation looming over his head. he was a fine man who loved his family and was victimized by lunatics.
      maples got off on a technicality. papers were filed incorrectly and the deadline had passed. what a shame the old man was too concerned about his own well-being to confess the truth about what he’s done. since he never had the backbone to stand up to his controlling wife, i’m not surprised that he also lacked the backbone to take this opportunity to take a stand for the truth. looks like old sandra is still pulling his strings from the grave. pathetic.

      • CS says:

        It’s over and done with, in case you were unaware. You’re just now responding to a post that’s more than 2 years old? Before you go spouting off, maybe you should get your facts straight…better yet, leave these people alone.

      • Get Real says:

        @CS- I am “these people”. This is my family so perhaps you should leave me alone. No? This will never be over. As long as two people have been lied to, an entire family has been victimized and there is a God in heaven. This will never be over.

  10. Im Disgusted says:

    Underwatch…Bobby and Christi are obviosly both very intelligent. What makes you think that Marvin and Sandra had to make up ANYTHING!? The kids new what happened to them, did not want to go back for more, and I’m sure went quite willingly with the grandparents who loved them. I am so sick of the word “brainwashed” that it makes me want to retch! The kids were, AND STILL ARE! aware of the exact reasons that their grandparents raised them!

    • underwatch says:

      @ Im Disgusted – “brainwashing” is what it is, it could also be called “emotional abuse” inflicted on a child. When you were 7 or 8 years old and if any adult changed your name and kidnapped you from your biological parents, that would be a horrible thing. There are many other legal options that Marvin and Sandra Maple could have taken, but they chose not to. They could have moved to the other state and contacted the District Attorney in Tennessee to let them know their whereabouts and by doing that they would not have had to changed the names and the identity of these two very young children. Instead they “brainwashed” them, and that’s a “disgusting” thing. They could have used the money they used to go into hiding and start a new life to pay a therapist for the children to ensure their safety if that was their concern and even if they were “disgusted” with the family court and legal system. Instead, they chose the parental kidnapping and underground option and that is the alternative that I am “disgusted” with.

    • Meaghan says:

      Steven Stayner was abducted by a stranger at the age of seven and raised as his son, and he wasn’t really aware of what really happened and had vague memories for many years. His kidnapper told him his parents didn’t want him anymore and had handed over custody.

  11. survivor says:

    I have been keeping up with this story. I think this article was well written as to what advice was given to everyone involved. Healing and closure for all is the most important. The Baskin’s children lived a lie, compliments of their grandparents. I shudder as I read this story, because in 1987, my parents came to my house when our kids were little and falsely accused my husband and I of abuse and told me, “we’re taking the can come if you want”. So I left with them and we “hid” for 16 years. My parents abused me during that time and also threatened to take the kids away from me. I finally got away from them when our daughter called the police on her grandmother the last time “grandma” beat me. I had divorced my husband (per my parents instruction), but remarried him 4 1/2 years ago. Our son now has a relationship with his father, but our daughter’s relationship is badly damaged. My parents continue to hide and we have sought to file kidnapping charges on them. This scenario with grandparents trying to steal grandkids is obviously common and is not motivated by “protection”, but control. I know…I lived it.

    • underwatch says:

      Hi Survivor, thank you very much for sharing your story. It’s sad your daughter’s relationship with you and your husband is badly damaged. You should urge your daughter to talk to other adult victims or survivors of parental kidnapping in groups like Take Root’s members were abducted children and are now adults like the two Baskin children.

  12. forthelost says:

    I will point out the kids apparently thought their grandparents were their biological parents, and that certainly seems to say they don’t remember everything.

  13. Jan says:

    What about the Baskin’s other children? They seem pretty normal and happy. If there were big problems at home, wouldn’t we be seeing evidence? The Baskin’s appear to have lived admirable and loving lives in the last 20 years. I doubt the 8 years before were so bad.

    I have memories as far back as 2-3 years old. It seems very strange not to remember a huge change and a move that happened at 7 or 8. When you’re 27 or 28, 7 or 8 isn’t that long ago.

    My own mother in law thought everyone she knew was abusive to their children. Happily my father in law didn’t agree and she didn’t have the resources to kidnap any of the children. Amongst other things she didn’t know how to drive, thank God!

    I remember 20 years ago. People were told “children don’t lie about that kind of thing”. The fact that in spite of an investigation no evidence was found argues that the children did not tell the authorities in Tennessee anything to support the allegations. They would have been interviewed and probably taken to a psychologist.

    The element that seems most clarifying to me is that the grandfather threatened to kill the grandchildren rather than ever allow their parents to see them again. That’s not a loving or caring attitude. Taking children even from truly abusive parents is difficult for both parents and children. I’m sorry that these children grew up in their grandparent’s care. No wonder they’ve so far refused to see their long lost parents. Jonathan Bunting should ask himself how he’d feel if his children were kidnapped and he was accused of abusing them? I hope they receive some good counseling.

  14. underwatch says:

    @ Jan The facts and circumstances of the Marvin Maple Family Abduction case are starting to surface. See below. Apparently, the children were appointed a guardian ad litem attorney, Karen Hornsby in 1989. Rather than let Karen Hornsby do her job, the Maples sold them home and went underground. This is typical in these underground cases. What I never could understand is some individuals which I call “extremists” or those that are part of the “protective parent” cause, group or even cult are not able to see these cases for what they are. Even if Marvin and Sandra Maple believed that they were protecting their children and believed that the quote “system” would not protect the children, they were not willing to stick around and find out. Yet you have individuals in these groups or so called “protective parents” that are going to without qualification support the Marvin and Sandra Maples of this world. That to me is very sad. These people are not concerned about the Baskin children, they are only concerned about their cause. That simply “digusts” me. Thanks Jan for your open and honest comments!

    — snip —
    In 1988, lawyer Karen Hornsby was appointed as attorney ad litem to represent Christi and Bobby during a Department of Human Services investigation concerning allegations of abuse. The Maples were awarded temporary custody May 5, 1988.

    While awaiting a final hearing March 29, 1989, Hornsby reported in the arrest warrant she learned March 10 the Maples placed their home up for sale and left the state with the children.

    Hornsby, “who has great concern for the children’s safety,” charged Maple with kidnapping the two children, the arrest warrant stated.

    “Marvin L. Maple did unlawfully and feloniously take a child under the age of 16 with intent to detain or conceal such child from its guardian,” the arrest warrant stated.

  15. We'll See says:

    As a couple of other people have noted, you are making a lot of assumptions here. But you are in plentiful company since the media has made the same assumptions.

    I know principles in this case. When they are forced to testify, everyone will learn what truly happened. You should prepare a post in which you retract all your presumptive “advice.”

    In the meantime, I suggest that you refrain from issuing “advice” to people living in a situation when you have only heard one side of that situation.

    • underwatch says:

      Dear We’ll See – In these parental kidnapping cases, I always hear from people like you that claim they have secret information that will exonerate the defendant from all charges. In my experience, this information never materializes during the trial. Please remember that in a trial, those credible witnesses are usually those with professional credentials like the guardian ad litem attorney, not any self appointed protective parents, domestic violence groups or child protectionists that do not have professional credentials. My advice to you “We’ll See” is if you don’t like reading our blog, then you should find one discussing the case that supports your views unless you are simply here to promote your cause. If you have the intellect to discuss this case, then let’s I’m interested in hearing your opinion and even any “advice” you have.

  16. Jan says:

    @Underwatch, I thought your advice and recommendations excellent. My only quibble is that I thought the children, whether Jonathan and Jennifer or Bobbi and Christi were also victims of their grandparents’ crime.

    I did wonder how the grandparents managed to sell their house in such a way as to be untraceable? Ordinarily selling a house takes some time with escrow periods, etc. They bought(?) a condo in San Jose plus supported themselves, probably put the kids through college, etc. To me, that suggests they didn’t sell their home in TN at a giveaway price. There had to be a paper trail somewhere.

  17. Mack says:

    Underwatch, these radical extremist “child advocates” who help kidnappers stay ahead of the law are an underground group of enablers and co-dependents to sexual abuse Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy perpetrators.
    They are very sick individual who feel invisible, so they have to manufacture heroic scenarios where they can cast themselves as Heroes. They like the excitment of breaking laws for their “heroic” cause and of keeping company with other underground lowlifes.

    Truth has no place in their lives, if some “fact” makes them feel like a big-shot, then it HAS to be true since they ARE so heroic. If a peice of evidence contradicts their heroic vision of self, then that evidence must not be true. It’s as simple as that. Don’t try to figure them out using adult logic, although it’s hard to believe some people can be so pathetic.

    If the Maples had allowed the grandkids to really finish up the therapy sessions, more details of the brainwashing would have been substantiated so the Maples had to run. They COULDN’T let the system work. The therapy would have continued after the return of kids to the Baskins.
    And then the extremists would have have had to look elsewhere for a drama.

  18. John says:

    The grandfather is absolutely in the wrong and should never get out of prison. By hiding out all these years under an assumed name, he has shown that he is a flight risk and undeserving of bail. If the grandparents really believed they were right, they would have let justice take its course in the courtroom. Instead, they acted in knowing violation of the law. If the grandparents really believed they were right, they would have taken all three children instead of just the two they felt were perfect. They let their religious fundamentalism get in the way because they equated being Baptist to Satanic worship. These children were brainwashed by their grandparents but now are acting selfishly in refusing to see a mother and father who have never stopped loving them and who have never given up hope. This grandfather has had 20 years of undeserved freedom. True justic needs to come swiftly.

  19. We'll See says:

    My knowledge is not “secret” knowledge. It is the knowledge gained by knowing the people involved. There are many people who have firsthand knowledge of the situation. You, of course, are not such a person.

    I have no doubt you have a lot of experience and can draw conclusions that might be accurate a majority of the time. But keep in mind that there are exceptions to every rule.

    Though you are simply talking about yet another case of this type, this is not just another case to these particular people or the people who care about them.

  20. PopcornMomma says:

    Oh, for the love of God, people! Not one of us knows the truth. My OPINION is that, NO, the Baskins are not molesters, BUT that the Maples would not have taken the kids without valid reason. We’ll see as the case unfolds. However, I am extremely frustrated by all of the people suggesting that because they were cleared in the 80’s they are innocent. Not one of us has a clue as to what happened. Let’s wait and see before we burn someone at the stake. There have been plenty of cases where people have been cleared of crimes when they were, in fact, doing wrong!

    • underwatch says:

      @ PopcornMomma I think this is a healthy discussion for everyone in the family abduction, domestic violence, family violence, child protection and protective parent communities. That all said, when allegations such as abuse, satanic ritual abuse, parental kidnapping, child maltreatment, domestic violence, family violence, unfit parenting, an unfaithful spouse are made in case, what are law enforcement and child nonprofit search organizations going to do? Because of the allegations, should they chose to not investigate a case? The problem with allegations especially in custody and family law cases is that custodial embattled parents or grandparents who kidnap the children rarely have reliable professionally trained child abuse or medical professionals as their eye witnesses. In the Maple case, they didn’t even trust the guardian ad litem attorney appointed by the court and I imagine Child Protective Services wasn’t trusted either. Still in other cases protective parent and domestic violence groups in some counties have accused judges of being bias when appointing child psychiatrists or child therapists to render a custody evaluation. So in following these cases for years, I have decided that you can’t take a wait and see approach and have concluded that parental kidnapping is never justified. Parents and Grandparents must take some personal responsibility and work with our existing child protection system. If they think their children’s safety is in jeopardy, then they need to work with CPS, get the family law courts to order a evaluation, get the family law courts to appoint the child(ren) an Attorney an work with the local police. But what they can’t do is take the law into their own hands and go into hiding with the children for 20 years.

      Finally, in my opinion some individuals that support Marvin and Sandra Maple and want them found innocent because it adds credibility to their cause or particular case which I will talk about in a future blog entry. They are not concerned what was in the best interests of Christi and Bobby Baskin 20 years ago or Jennifer and Jonathan Bunting today, they want Marvin Maple found innocent today because it somehow makes them feel their team has won. For me, I will admit bias for “My Team” is the team that believes children should never be parentally kidnapped and that parental kidnappers need to be convicted and sent to prison to deter others from committing this horrible and heinous crime against children.

  21. Greg Williams says:

    If you KNOW beyaond a shadow of a doubt that your children or grandchildren are being abused and are at risk it is unconscionable not to act, irregardless of the law. You stated that you doubted if the grandfather had exhausted all legal means. Who gives a damn: If these children were being abused the grandparents are HEOROES for forfeiting their lives and giving up even their identity to protect their grandchildren.
    You think theses grandparents were just itching to have there empty nests refilled, These young adults now refuse to even meet with their Parents…That should tell you something….Shouldn’t the father be a catholic priest instead of a southern preacher…i am sure that was his REAL calling…God has a special place for those who wrap themselves in the cloth and then terrorize children.

    • underwatch says:

      Hi Greg,

      It sounds like you are in the group of individuals that want Marvin Maple to be found innocent for the crimes of parental kidnapping and creating a false identitY or perjury. I am sure you have your personal reasons. However, what if the kidnapped children were yours or your grandchildren! The narcisistic parental kidnapper plays judge, jury and executioner. And what about the parental brainwashing? How cruel for Marvin and Sandra Maple were to change the names and identities of 6 and 7 year old children. If you have kids, or are a protective parent, how are you not able to see this?

      The Editor

  22. DD says:

    Having known the Mark Baskins for some 16 years, I was a part of their life when they adopted their now 16 year old, when they homeschooled their son, when Mark led a homeschool band in which my 3 children participated(do you think any Christian homeschool parent would put their children in the hands of molesters), when we prayed and believed that one day God would answer prayer to find their children.
    Mark Baskin is one of the kindest men I have know. Debbie Baskin loves her children – lavishly. You will not find two more sacrificing people. It breaks my heart to hear people malign them when they have already suffered so much. God will vindicate though. Truth will

  23. Mack says:

    Someone on one of the other boards stated “No one will ever be able to PROVE to me that molestation did not occur.”
    That is like an atheist who KNOWS there is NO God. It is impossible to PROVE something DOESN’T exist.
    Just like atheism is a religion based ON FAITH, these hero wannabe’s believe molestation because it is

  24. Mack says:

    Someone on one of the other boards stated “No one will ever be able to PROVE to me that molestation did not occur.”
    That is like an atheist who KNOWS there is NO God. It is impossible to PROVE something DOESN’T exist. It is only possible to prove THAT SOMETHING DOES EXIST.
    Just like atheism is a religion based ON FAITH, (because God NOT existing cannot have evidence), these hero wannabe extremists believe molestation occurs whenever they don’t like someone because it is THEIR FAITH.
    In the Baskin case they weren’t able to convince any court or institution of the allegations.

  25. Undecided says:

    DD, While I do not think that any Christian homeschool parent would put their children in the hands of molesters KNOWINGLY, I do certainly think that it could happen unknowingly (look at all the devout Catholic parents who have trusted their children to the priests who then abused them). Did you even do a background check on
    Mark Baskin before you put your child in his class? If not, then, yes, you could easily be putting your children in the hands of molesters.

  26. DD says:

    Undecided, I agree many trusting parents unwittingly put their children in the hands of perpetrators. However, I had already known Mark and Debbie Baskin for 2 years before he directed the home school band. I knew their story and still I never felt any uneasiness about the truthfulness of what they had told me. My youngest child (then 12 or so) was a friend of their son and spent time with their family. I didn’t have reason to doubt the Baskins then and I still don’t. If anything, my faith and trust has grown in our 16 years friendship. They are GOOD people! What more can we say! Hope you will become Decided(and for the Baskins).

  27. Undecided says:

    Sorry, DD, but most molesters are people that the family trusted because they “knew” them well (either relatives or close friends of the family who they considered to be like uncles or grandfathers). I’m not saying that Mark falls into that category. Just saying that ANYONE can be a molester. And, that molesters are often described by the people who know them as a “pillar of the community,” and “the nicest guy,” or “we never suspected him” and so forth.

  28. Mack says:

    “Undecided” it sounds like “guilty till proven innocent” is your motto. (which makes you “Decided” doesn’t it?) I wouldn’t second guess your method of living your life, if it works for you. Many people, on the other hand are blessed with insight into human character and personality, and they can be a lttile less fearfull of the world around them. Also, many people have good communications with their children, as I am sure “DD” does with her 12 y/o.

  29. Celeste says:

    We all have to remember that Marvin Maple is not the victim here. Although he may act like he’s been victimized here he’s not the victim here. Bobby and Christie Baskin are the victims here. They’re the ones who have had their lives turned upsided down because they’ve been lied to for 20 years.

  30. Rhonda says:

    I worked as a school bus driver in Jefferson County Kentucky. They harbor many abductive parents there. I accidentally saw a few missing children, reported it to the then 2nd head of school transportation, and she attacked me, cost me my job, my home etc. Seems there is a lot of profitability in getting in the business of helping people that have abducted their children. From what I saw, the wrong parent, 99% of thre time, had the kid. I tried to tell a father of 3 in Florida where his kids were in Kentucky, but, he kept insisting his leads said they were in Alaska. He wasted time. I knew exactly where they were, and about 12-15 other kids. I paid dearly, just for knowing. Lost everything, by doing the right thing, and not knowing that the person I was reporting to was in on the profitting of helping to hide parental kidnappers.

  31. Rhonda says:

    I worked as a school bus driver in Louisville, Kentucky. When I was between morning and afternoon runs, I’d occassionally go to the library and ‘surf’ to kill time. I wondered on the website for missing and exploited children, and to my horror, I had seen several of the kids on that website. I approached a Ms. Duncan who was in a ranking position for JCPS transportation. We were told in training it was part of our job to report abuse, protect safety of the children, etc, and to report any suspicious activity. I went to Ms. Duncan with the real names of children, and she immediately, on her own, knew the alias names being used in Louisville. She was part of the organization. She became so angry, that I unknowingly, uncovered the operation simply by reporting a situation to her that was considered part of my job. To shut me up, she fired me, and cost me my summer job, which led to my losing my home. I’ve lost hundreds of thousands in real estate, personal property, income, and no future retirement to fall back on. Start searching Louisville when you are missing a child. The ones I reported were with mentally ill parents. They don’t care if the child is safe or not. I have a feeling someone is making a lot of money on this. Every organization I went to, reported right back to Duncan. She and Faye Yager look a lot alike. There is money in hiding children. And, if you do find the parent or child that is missing, they will NOT tell where they were hid, nor who was hiding them. Therefore, I’m also a victim, because I can’t recover what was taken from me by merely doing my job, innocently. Come on Fedynich, you were one I emailed. Notice, you never came to my defense either.

    • underwatch says:

      Hi Rhonda, I recollect their was a Faye Yager Case in Lexington, KY. I recollect the father testified in the Yager case in 1992. I believe the father’s last name was Ortman. I don’t know what happened to the mother but if she is still in Kentucky, you may have stumbled on something.

  32. Rhonda says:

    I more than know I stumbled across the viper pit. JCPS is more than involved. I mentioned the kids I had seen that were ‘missing’ on various routes I drove while in a bible study class. The bible study class had as one of it’s members a key person from JCPS transportation, as well as another bus driver. I was set up and shafted, and the other driver was given a job in supplies. The key person from JCPS used to be a NYC police officer, where a lot of ‘sightings’ of the missing Ann Gotlib had been observed. I know that children abducted children that weren’t being housed in the Louisville area also passed thru Louisville. As an example, before the Shah children were returned to their father, they had passed thru Louisville. I remember them getting off the school bus, sisters, to a neighborhood with many Indians. At that time, I knew nothing about the Shah children from media, etc. Just that when I dropped them off there on my route, it struck me strange that they were ‘sisters’ yet, 100% no resemblence to each other, not even a hint. Sarah Lynn and Genevieve didn’t look like they shared even one common parent. During my driving with JCPS, I was instructed to pick up a brother and sister, olive skinned, and drive out of my way completely back to the compound, dropping them off in the Hikes Lane area of Louisville at an intersection near an underpass. Rose, from the bus compound behind Moore High School on Outer Loop had told me to make sure I checked that the bus wasn’t ‘followed’, and that there were relatives in the US looking for the children. This was before I started putting bits of the puzzle together, and started noticing other children that were on National Center for Missing and Exploited children’s website. When it came time for me to map out directions for the route, turns, stops, etc, so that any sub would be able to handle the route, on the notations section on the right of the page, I had noted that the next driver needed to make sure the bus wasn’t followed prior to dropping the children. Rose saw this when I turned in the route sheet, and told me it could not be written on the form, it was too secret…. Which struck me odd. Now I know, they didn’t want to know their ties to the underground unravelled. I know so much, and need help to recover my life. If anyone knows of a whistleblower protection, etc., I have lost more than enough. I want the responsible parties to reimburse me for loss of my home, etc. Who can I trust? The few government agencies I’ve tried ended up being involved, or at least all too willing to block me.

  33. aguy says:

    Certain people keep promising the whole story, but so far nothing has come out. There is no evidence of child abuse at all. Maybe the parents didn’t take their children to the church their grandparents wanted. Maybe they listened to Iron Maiden records at home. Who knows? For all the promises, we still haven’t heard this “whole story”

  34. Scripture says:

    This posting is great, thanks for sharing. I apologize that I don’t comment more on your blog but the time you know. I would be happy to read you blog on a daily basis even my lack of time. Hopefully you’re keeping your writing up and I will check back for sure 🙂

    Regards Linda Get Zhu Zhu Pets Before Black Friday

  35. findthailandhotels says:

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    • underwatch says:

      This starts to make sense. The children in this case were victims of the child abuse hysteria of the ’80s and ’90s that occurred in some of our communities in America because of the now discredited use of use of practices like anatomical dolls. Communities like Manhattan Beach, CA; Wenatchee, WA and now Murfreesboro, TN are horrible examples. It’s sad that these now adult victims are not open to a reunification.

      • Just me says:

        So you’re claiming there’s no chance that the memories are accurate? Are you even willing, yourself, to be open to the possibility of abuse? You demand that others be open, but you yourself remain closed. A 35 year old has vivid memories of abuse that are as clear to him as another memory of breaking his ankle. This doesn’t sound like implanted memories. I’m sorry if you feel this way, it’s quite sad, really.

      • underwatch says:

        Reunification using a professional therapist might be the only way for the adult-children to ever get closure for themselves, their children and future grandchildren. The grandparents should never have kidnapped their 7 and 8 year old grandchildren. What we don’t read in the media about this case might only be revealed by a professional. The grandparents horribly played Judge, Jury and Executioner in this case. The media, bloggers and special interest groups will all take an obvious position. The court system would have intervened had the children been recovered before they turned 18. I personally think based on what I’ve read about this case is that there might have been some significant religious differences between the parents and grandparents. The grandparents used the child abuse hysteria of the ’80s to raise their grandchildren. The book Satan’s Silence by an attorney or the movie about the McMartin Preschool Trial with help to describe this time in America. In regards to implanted memories, that discussion should be with a licensed professional. One of the first stories in the media was the kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst that was photographed robbing a bank carrying an automatic weapon. Many allege she had Stockholm Syndrome. Again, we hope any adult-children in cases like this seek the assistance of a professional.

      • Just me says:

        Well… I’ve been seeing a therapist for 3 years. Does that count?

  36. Just me says:

    Once more time. I’m specifically stating that I have had over 3 years of therapy processing my trauma and memories, already passed the two year mark at the time of the interview. I remember the pain of abuse as vividly as the pain of a broken ankle. I’d like to know if you think my therapy has any weight, or if you will find another reason to blindly deny any and all chance that my memories are accurate.

    • underwatch says:

      Thank you for posting your message. It’s great that you are in therapy. Many parental kidnapping victims do not acknowledge that need for it. What I personally find difficult to comprehend is that most parental kidnappers will attempt to erase all memories of a parent(s). I could not imagine or even think how a parental kidnapper would change an young innocent child’s name and undeniably alienate them from their parent(s). And the parental kidnapping victims usually have a difficult time acknowledging the concept of stockholm syndrome or loyalty to their kidnapper(s).

      Someday, you might have children or nieces and nephews. If they were kidnapped, would you want the parental kidnapper proclaiming judge, jury and executioner to teh custody of the young children. There are so many parents coparenting or sharing custody of their children today in a responsible and civil manner. Unfortunately, during the time of your case, not all parents saw that as an option.

      As an adult-child, I wonder if you would get any closure by reunifying with your left-behind parent(s) so that you can judge for yourself the character of your biological parents. When you were missing, I recollect getting a number of emails from your left-behind parents. They were definitely searching for you and it certainly sounded like they loved you.

      The Editor

      • Just me says:

        This will likely be my final reply here, because it seems pointless — I know my truth, and your biases seem to make you unable or unwilling to consider an alternative take from your own.

        I’m 36 years old. I understand the concept of Stockholm syndrome, but I am of the opinion you may not. Stockholm syndrome is a bonding with and feelings of sympathy towards a captor as a survival instinct — literally finding compassion for the captor’s motivations. Victims generally don’t have new memories implanted directly into their brain, which is the accusation most people make who blindly side with my actual tormentors, Mark and Debbie. Stockholm syndrome sufferers bond with their captors, generally, for fear of being tortured or even killed of they do not. Marvin and Sandra never used fear or physical violence or force. I had no fear from them– ever. They only gave love and selflessness — they sacrificed everything to save us. They never took us without asking if that was what we wanted. It was our choice. This was not a kidnapping — it was free will to leave an abusive life.

        If you were raped… would you want reunification with your rapist? I remember my DNA donors. I know who they are. I’m working on forgiveness, but forgiveness is not inclusion, especially not at the price of my own well being. I will not expose myself to the fear and torment of seeing them.

      • underwatch says:

        Just Me,

        1. Do you really believe that your biological parents were involved in a satanic cult? This was a false allegation that was common in the ‘80s.

        2. Is there any evidence besides your memories as a very young child that your biological parents engaged in this?

        Yours was one of the very first cases we started following many years ago. Since then, of the parental kidnapping cases se have followed — there is not a single case where there in proven physical abuse against the left-behind parent. Many of the left-behind parents will sometimes start new families after their kids are kidnapped,

        Our Nation’s CPS system has vastly improved since your kidnapping. So although your grandparents may not have trusted that system, it is a better system today.

        3. Did your grandparents have different religious beliefs as your biological parents?

        I an not surprised that even after the horrible things you told the media about your parents, no other victims have come forward.

        “I think brainwash,” Debbie Baskin said. “I think they really did a number on them. They had told law enforcement and stuff that we were members of a satanic cult, that we offered human sacrifice- it was crazy stuff,’ she added.

      • Just me says:

        1. “Do you really believe that your biological parents were involved in a satanic cult?” No, because this is not something I remember, but I believe my grandparents believed the satantic cult aspect. I remember physical and sexual abuse that bordered on ritualistic in its structure, at times, and I believe when Faye Yager got involved, she used that ritualistic aspect to convince my grandparents it was MORE than just standard abuse.

        2. “Is there any evidence besides your memories as a very young child that your biological parents engaged in this?” First of all, see above. My memory doesn’t indicate involvement in a satanic cult. As for the sexual abuse, I don’t believe there is a burden of proof about any of this because I am not taking legal action. I’m focusing on honoring the memory of my grandparents and their sacrifice. You don’t seem to want proof that Marvin and Sandra did anything wrong, even when in the end the law found that they were only guilty of custodial interference with time served, and further my grandfather’s record was expunged after his years of non violation of parole or getting into any other legal problems, so her died, legally, an innocent man with no crime on his record. Everyone likes to point out “no evidence of abuse was found” and Mark and Debbie were cleared… But so, ultimately, was Marvin. It comes down to your own interpretation who is right and wrong.

        “Our Nation’s CPS system has vastly improved since your kidnapping. So although your grandparents may not have trusted that system, it is a better system today.” But it is widely accepted that it sucked when they needed it. This is a moot point.

        3. “Did your grandparents have different religious beliefs as your biological parents?” They were all Christian, in theory. My grandparents were Church of Christ, Mark and Debbie were Southern Baptist. My grandparents didn’t have a specific problem with any Christian religion that attempted to follow an interpretation of the Bible so long as that faith did not specifically “add to or take away” from the Book. So they weren’t too keen on Catholicism or Mormonism, for example.

        “I am not surprised that even after the horrible things you told the media about your parents, no other victims have come forward.” I really hope they were scared straight after what they went through.

        “’I think brainwash,’ Debbie Baskin said. ‘I think they really did a number on them. They had told law enforcement and stuff that we were members of a satanic cult, that we offered human sacrifice- it was crazy stuff,’ she added.” Who told law enforcement it was a satanic cult? Not me. Marvin and Sandra, I believe, as? started above, were convinced by Faye Hager. Because, again, this is not part of my personal memory of the events. And my memory is clear. Crystal.

      • underwatch says:

        Faye Yager, the interior designer with no licensed credentials or advanced degree attempted to inject satanic abuse into a number of these cases. You may have been interviewed by her. This occurred in a time in our country where there was child abuse hysteria (the McMartin Preschool and Wenatchee, Washington). This hysteria was later proven to be unwarranted. It sounds like as many of us concluded in your case the judge did not want to incarcerate your grandfather because of his age. That said, had your sister and you been recovered several months or years after the parental kidnapping, he would have most likely received a prison sentence. At the very least, the court would have ordered another evaluation and you would have been reunified with your biological parents as ordered by the court. Your life would be much different today.
        Another question, did your grandpa or grandma object to the marriage of you mother to Mark Baskin?
        You do know that there are a number of other parental kidnappings by grandparents in Faye Yager cases. Yager was arrested and criminal charges filed against her. Court TV covered her trial.
        There is a limited amount of research done on the motives of the parental kidnapper. In one of those studies, I recollect that anger and revenge was significantly higher than child protection. Perhaps your grandfather just wanted to spend time with his very young grandson.
        As an observer of your case, you have alleged that you were abused by your biological parents. You have stated you have crystal clear memories of this. And you are not open to the possibility that those memories could have been implanted by your grandparents.
        The day and adult changes a seven year old’s name and creates some false story about his or her parents — is a horrible act of child maltreatment and emotional abuse against an innocent child.
        We are surprised that a therapist would not recommend a reunification under the supervision of a therapist specializing in this field. I recollect communicating with your mother over 20 years ago. She was desperate to locate you and your sister. You are no longer 7 years old.
        As a parent I have a very difficult time thinking how your mother feels today. It is a very sad and tragic story. She was betrayed by her own parents and now by her son and daughter.

        What would make your story unique would for a man like you to stand up for non-unified families and do the right thing.

      • Just me says:

        I’m no fan of Faye Yager. I think her meddling is one of the main reasons people like yourself refuse any other possibility than the main narrative.

        “It sounds like as many of us concluded in your case the judge did not want to incarcerate your grandfather because of his age.” It sounds like you make a lot of assumptions about things you were not involved in. They lowered the charges and offered the plea days after my sister and I spoke with attorneys on both sides and shared far more details than I’ll ever share to the media.

        “At the very least… you would have been reunified with your biological parents as ordered by the court. Your life would be much different today.” I’d have likely committed suicide or become a predator myself.

        “Another question, did your grandpa or grandma object to the marriage of you mother to Mark Baskin?” Not to my knowledge, no. There was a narrative created about a pretend rift between them to explain why they would have taken us, any alternative to there being any truth to the allegations.

        “Perhaps your grandfather just wanted to spend time with his very young grandson.” It’s insane to give up a whole, full life over a lie and for anger, revenge, or to spend time with grandchildren they’d have been allowed to see plenty of if they’d just kept quiet.

        “As an observer of your case…” Correct. Just a observer.

        “… you have alleged that you were abused by your biological parents.” I was.

        “You have stated you have crystal clear memories of this.” They are.

        “And you are not open to the possibility that those memories could have been implanted by your grandparents.” No. There are too many details. Too dimensional. To many visuals. Too many horrible sensations. There’s no way this could have all been implanted.

        “The day and adult… creates some false story about (a seven year old’s) parents — is a horrible act of child maltreatment and emotional abuse against an innocent child.” But that is not what happened. I know because I remember. You trying to state otherwise as a fact that you are 100% certain of is frankly disrespectful.

        “We are surprised that a therapist would not recommend a reunification under the supervision of a therapist specializing in this field.” She concludes that the memories are real and that I should protect myself from the emotional an actual meeting would bring.

        “I recollect communicating with your mother over 20 years ago. She was desperate to locate you and your sister.” She hasn’t earned the title of ‘mother’ to me. She’s quiet good at her little shoe. I’ve read her blogs.

        “You are no longer 7 years old.” Not an I an ‘adult child.’ I’m just an adult.

        “As a parent I have a very difficult time…” Right. Only looking at this through your own emotions and limited view.

        “She was betrayed by her own parents and now by her son and daughter.” No. She has never been betrayed by anyone but herself. She had plenty of transgressions to answer for… If there’s an afterlife and a God, then I don’t wish upon her the fate that might be waiting.

        “What would make your story unique would for a man like you to stand up for non-unified families and do the right thing.” What you believe is the right thing. Based on your already unwavering bias. You’re quiet illmannered and cruel, too boot, if you would insist on someone to ‘reunify’ with individuals he remembers as his tormentors vividly and claim that’s the ‘right thing’ to do. I’m speaking my truth. Defending the true heroes in this, indeed, tragic story. No one can do more or better than to rely on honesty and integrity. I’m doing the right thing. And if that’s disappointing to you, and you can’t consider the alternative or at least be respectful… I pity you. Farewell.

      • underwatch says:

        Marvin and Sandra Maple were the judge, jury and executioner in this case. They should have gone to Child Protective Services and the Police to protect you. The Family Law and CPS systems were not perfect back then — but in their own self-centered narcissistic way like other parental kidnappers — they did not believe the laws for the rest of society applied to them. It is sounding like by posting on this very public website that you believe your case is different than the other Faye Yager cases. I sincerely hope in life that you do your very best not to become judge, jury and executioner too. Although your critics would say that you are acting your like Sandra and Marvin. Some of the comments from other posters about Sandra and Marvin do not portray them as first class individuals. It looks like the Baskins have a large number of supporters.

        There is a non-profit organization for victims of parental kidnapping – At some point in your life it might help you to speak with other parental kidnapping victims. I find a word that used that starts with a “s” very horrible and it’s a good thing you are in therapy. Although this word was also used by Damon Moelter, the current adult-poster child for the protective parent movement. He used it is a national media interview.

        If you are interested in a book or movie about your story, Hollywood or the general public do not seem much interested in parental kidnapping stories. There is not much unique about these cases. On the other hand, the media always likes reunification stories — but that doesn’t sound like something you are ready for as an adult.

        I personally feel very sorry for Debbie Baskin. She was victimized by her parents and now by her own children.

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