The Alleged Leaders – Protective Parent Group
- Faye Yager is the most recognized name of the alleged leaders of the underground. She will confess to involvement or at least a phone call with any underground mom. She’ll allegedly admit to it even if she had nothing to do with the case to cover up for those that have direct involvement. We’ve found a picture of her smiling that was taken by photographer Allan Dietrich. Yager once faced a prison term of 66 years. She has been sued with judgments ordered for thousands of dollars. She claims that she doesn’t have any money nor does she exchange Christmas presents with her husband. With a pending grand jury indictment, we don’t think she is smiling these days. We also hear that she is no longer living in Georgia.
- JoanPennington is alleged to be the real leader of the Underground as Executive Director of the National Center for Protective Parents. See her picture at the site of Freedom Magazine of the International Church of Scientology. Joan is the author of a legal book on the Underground for Attorneys representing abducting mothers. She is the one that coined the underground term protective parent. Her co-author was radical feminist attorney Joan Zorza of the National Center for Women and Family Law. Joan is trying to setup a nationwide referral and expert witness network of pro-bono attorneys to represent underground moms. Her organization will certify and train these attorneys. We also understand that her organization keeps files on all of the Underground moms. Our sources tell us that she was in hiding during the Philadelphia Federal Grand Jury investigation. If you ever wondered about motive for these organizations, check out this web page from the OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS that gave her organization an award amount of $236,998 in 1998.
- LydiaRayner of Long Beach, Mississippi is an admitted leader of the Underground. Prior to her appearance on ABC Primetime for allegedly trying to help Bipin Shah, she was known for hiding Dorrie Singley and Karen Newsome. We actually found her organization Mothers Against Raping Children (M.A.R.C.) listed on the web.
- Amy Neustein Ph.D. of Help Us Regain the Children is one of the alleged other leaders of the Underground. Her organization originally referred Underground Attorney Alan D. Rosenfeld to April Meyer. Amy has a perplexing story of her own as she no longer has custody of her child. Ms. Neustein, also refuses any sort of visitation. Her former spouse, a physician now has sole custody of their daughter. She allegedly conducts the Faye Yager type interviews on young children. She was a panelist with radical feminist Joan Zora and feminist author Karen Winner at the National Women’s Studies Association Meeting where the claim was made that women across the country are losing their children to batterers and child abusers in epidemic proportions as a result of biased family courts. Amy is also on the National Advisory for for MASA (Mother’s Against Sexual Abuse) whose National Office is located in the same area where April Meyer allegedly kidnapped her daughter.
- DonnaMedley was once the guardian ad litem for Dorrie Singley’s child in San Francisco. Medley and Underground Attorney Sheila Brogna sued the State of Mississippi on behalf of the child in the Singley case. That case was dismissed by the Mississippi Supreme Court. While Medley worked for the District Attorney’s Office, we understand she allegedly tried to get funds for an underground mom in Yager’s organization. She later worked for the Family Abduction unit investigating kidnapping. We are happy to hear that she now works for the Office of Citizen Complaints. Here is a picture of Medley. We wouldn’t let her near our child.
- Portia Davis is the Executive Directory of the Ross County Network for Children in Ohio. On her guestbook, she uses the term, protective parent that many consider hard evidence that she is the contact in the Midwest for the Underground. She is a member of the National Alliance for Family Court Justice.
- Margi McCue of Portland/Milwaukee, Oregon has had direct involvement with Faye Yager and a number of underground cases. She is involved with the Unitarian Universalist Services Committee that has many global activities but has not yet been directly connected to the Underground.
- Connie Valentine’s current organization is the California Protective Parents Association that has a Web site that is hosted by the California National Organization for Women. Valentine, was once a state employee who worked with mental health patients was reassigned to administrative duties in 1993 after her appearance on a nationally televised show in which she claimed a satanic cult forced her to kill people when she was a little girl. Her organization used the underground term “protective parent“.
- April Meyer is vying for the position of the next Faye Yager. We hear that April has now moved up to Dexter, Oregon with her parents. Her parents, James and Mary Curtis have admitted to helping to hide several underground moms and their children at the so called Curtis Compound. April has appeared on Sally, Geraldo, Leeza and in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Article. Yet, she claims to not know the location of her daughter. We understand LifeTime Cable did a movie on her story and she made some money. Now let’s ask some of these reporters how they concluded that April Meyer had nothing to do with hooking Amanda up with Underground. Do they honestly want us to believe that Amanda alone decided to call up Faye Yager and go Underground.
OurChildren Our Future They are a new organization in California that are strong supporters of the underground. See their web page for a list of quotes from a who’s who list of underground attorneys and supporters. - Rosalyn Beasley from San Diego, California climbed aboard Faye Yager’s Underground Railroad in the early ’90s with her young son. She was caught in the Montpellier, Vermont, the former home of the the law practice of Underground Attorneys Harrison and Rosenfeld. She use to called The Friends of Elizabeth Morgan. They are alleged to help parents go Underground. At her trial in San Diego, Underground Attorney Alan Rosenfeld showed up and tried to get himself admitted pro hac vice. The Judge did not admit him, so Underground Attorney Rosenfeld left town. Beasley later plead guilty and received probation. Her son now lives happily with the father in a different state. Beasley is alleged to have tried multiple times to re-kidnap her son. We understand she rarely exercises her supervised visitation sessions. Beasley now living in Encinitas, California is alleged to be the main Underground contact in the San Diego area.
- Alliancefor Rights of Children (ARCH) use to be called The Friends of Elizabeth Morgan. They are alleged to help parents go Underground.
The Individuals and Organizations that Profit
- The National Center for Protective Parents is the organization that is the alleged intake point, legal referral center, legal training center and shelter for parents going into hiding. They are listed as a New Jersey United Way funded organization. Their Executive Director is Joan Pennington.
- The Ledership Council – A nonprofit organization that misuses psychological services to empower their professional reputations and indirectly promote such causes as “protective parenting”, parental kidnapping, maternal custody and lobby against such causes as “parental alienation syndrome. Their advisors include: Paul J. Fink (APSAC), Joyanna L. Silberg, PhD, Toby Kleinman, Esq., Richard Ducote, JD, Seth L. Goldstein, JD, Hol. Sol Gothward, JW, Geraldine Stahly, PhD, and Joan Zorza J.D.
- Child Abuse Solutons The Executive Director is Underground or Protective Parent Attorney Meera Fox. Their list of faculty include Linda Barnard, Richard Ducote, Vincent J. Felitti, M.D., Robert Geffner, Seth Goldstein, Hon. Sol Gothard, Karen Hawthorne, Hon Eugene Hyman, Megan Lehmer, Geraldine Butts Stahly and Joyanna Silberg.
- Alan D. Rosenfeld is the Attorney for the Underground. Alan Rosenfeld is known for his tossled hair, beard and wrinkled suit flying around the country without time to buy a new suit or visit the barber. He’ll enter a new case, ask the court to give have the public defender sponsor him with pro hac vice status. The county will then pay for his expert witnesses to fly in from all over the country. He’ll get the local domestic violence shelter to raise funds to pay his hotel bill. Some allege that he is paid from a trust account that is setup before the mom goes into hiding. He currently represents April Meyer. He has tried to get his colleague Sheila Brogna from the Dorrie Singley case to represent Amanda Otter. He has been suspended once by the Vermont Bar for recommending to a client that she violate a court order and for not having good financial records. Our subscribers tell us that he is often seen holding hands and hugging his clients. He walked Amanda Otter to school when she was younger and was present when one of April Meyer’s kids was born. He received a sanction in 1991 by the Vermont Bar Association and more recently suspended for 6 months in Colorado in 2008 serving a 6 months probation in PEOPLE v. ROSENFELD The PEOPLE of the State of Colorado, Complainant, v. Alan David ROSENFELD, Respondent -No. 06PDJ094 – November 21, 2007
- Joyanna L. Silberg, PhD — She is the new extremist psychologists that is taking on plight against our family law courts awarding joint custody to parents after any domestic violence allegation. Her claim that 58,000 children year in the U.S. are abuse victims that are ordered by the family court to have unsupervised contact with abusers when their parents divorce has tenets lobbying our courts away from the preferred joint custody to maternal custody. Her current poster child for her cause is now Jennifer Collins.
- Toby Kleinman is an alleged new protective parent attorney from New Brunswick, NJ who appeared at a Family Violence Conference in San Diego in 2001 discussing Desperate Moms Taking Children Underground.She is quoted as follows: “Mothers every day are put in a catch-22,” said Toby Kleinman, an attorney who has consulted on cases involving protective mothers who took their children into hiding. “You are required to report it if you suspect sexual abuse, but if you report it and can’t substantiate it, you risk losing your children.(article)”.Bar Association Complaints
June
23, 2005 – New Jesery District VIII Ethics Committee, Public Discipline of Toby KleinmanOrganizationsCenter for Protection of Children, Inc., Piscataway, NJ-this is a new non-profit organization that will compete with the National Center for Protective Parents for federal and state grants as well as donations. - Ted Gunderson is the private investigator and former FBI agent who appeared in many early underground cases. It was once alleged that Faye Yager was able to get Ted to help keep her out of jail. Ted retired from the FBI in 1979, and opened his private ivestigation firm, Ted L. Gunderson and Associates in Santa Monica, California. He is known for his belief in and investigation of criminal conspiracies involving cults run by government officials. This includes the McMartin Preschool alleged tunnels which was proven to be false. In other words, Gunderson is a private investigator and has the ability to find evidence for the underground cases. See his Wikipedia entry.
- Sheila Brogna is another Attorney for the Underground. She first became involved with the Underground becoming the attorney for Dorrie Singley’s child. Singley died while Underground in New Orleans and the child surfaced in San Francisco. The custody of the child went back to the father and Brogna appealed it to the Mississippi Supreme Court. She wrote an article for Family Advocate Newsletter of the American Bar Association about the Underground. In June of 1997, she chaired a breakout session of a ABA meeting on representing children. She talked about a minor child’s right to choose her own attorney rather than have one appointed by the court. In this case, her claim was that 13 year old Amanda Otter, daughter of Underground leader April Meyer chose Brogna. Wow again…
- Womanspace, Inc. is a nonprofit agency providing an array of services to women in crisis in the Mercer County, NJ. They have claimed to have helped over 22,000 women. With Ms. Pennington speaking at a meeting in 1996, we would encourage law enforcement to investigate family abductions from the shelter.
The Underground Attorneys Conference Circuit
- Alan D. Rosenfeld is the Attorney for the Underground. Alan Rosenfeld is known for his tossled hair, beard and wrinkled suit flying around the country without time to buy a new suit or visit the barber. He’ll enter a new case, ask the court to give have the public defender sponsor him with pro hac vice status. The county will then pay for his expert witnesses to fly in from all over the country. He’ll get the local domestic violence shelter to raise funds to pay his hotel bill. Some allege that he is paid from a trust account that is setup before the mom goes into hiding. He currently represents April Meyer. He has tried to get his colleague Sheila Brogna from the Dorrie Singley case to represent Amanda Otter. He has been suspended once by the Vermont Bar for recommending to a client that she violate a court order and for not having good financial records. Our subscribers tell us that he is often seen holding hands and hugging his clients. He walked Amanda Otter to school when she was younger and was present when one of April Meyer’s kids was born. Wow….
The Legal Conference Circuit
- TheChild Abuse Forensic Institute The board of this organization contains Seth Goldestein, Joan Pennington and Ann Haralambie. We mention Haralambie to the extent that an unnamed woman approached a recovered underground child allegedly on behalf of the noncustidal underground mom. The woman inappropriately told the 14 year old child if he wanted to live with his mom, the child needed to contact Ms. Haralambie. This event occurred several weeks after Haralambie attended a law conference in which underground attorney Sheila Brogna gave a seminar on the legal rights of children to choose their own attorney. BTW, it was Brogna who tried to become Amanda Otters’ attorney with Alan Rosenfeld represented the abducting mother.
- Richard Ducote spoke at the National Organization of Forensic Social Work on 15th Annual Conference on April 19-22, 1998 on The Dr. Elizabeth Morgan Story: An Insider’s View. Ducote is one of those expert witnesses that surfaces at the trials of these abducting parents. He currently represents underground mom Rosalyn Beasley (see above), who plead guilty to going underground with her son in the late late ’80s and was arrested in Montpellier, Vermont — birthplace of the underground. Here is a link to a picture of Richard Ducote.
- Seth L. Goldstein, J.D. spoke at the National Organization of Forensic Social Work 15th Annual Conference on April 19-22, 1998 on he Problem of Sorting Out Child Sexual Abuse Allegations in Divorce Cases Goldstein is another one of those professionals on the legal conference circuit and who participates as an expert witnesses that surfaces at the trials of these abducting parents.
- Professor Hal Pepinsky This feminist criminal justice professor at the University of Indiana has been a long-time supporter of the Children of the Underground and protective parent group or cult. Faye Yager has been a frequent lecturer in his classes. However, here is what he wrote about Faye Yager.
The Journalists (Alleged Supporters)
- Mckenzie Carpenter In 1997, Carpenter did a story with Allan Detrich on the Children of the Underground.
- Allan Detrich In 1997, Detrich, a photographer for the Toledo Blade was present at the parental kidnappings of Ellen Dever and Bonnie Rubenstein. Detrich’s wife Mary Detrich, a physician is also alleged to be involved. Later in 2000, kidnapper David Hughes was arrested in his home. Alan was recently was allegedly fired by the Toledo Blade for altering photos, a major ethics violations of photo journlists.
- Anna Quindlen She wrote one her her last columns in the NY Times about protective parents and underground moms and reports a case involving a mother who killed herself and her child. As a new reporter for Newsweek, she writes an article to support Andrea Yates, the mother who killed her children. We feel sorry for Quindlen’s children.
Garland Waller In 2001, this Assistant Professor at Boston Univeristy produced a bias documentary entitled Small Justice: Little Justice in America’s Courts promoting the protective parent group or cult. There are some letters (letter1 letter 2) on Professor Waller’s site from children that could not have possible be written by these children without coaching from the non-custodial mothers. - Karen Winner is a radical feminist former news reporter whose child custody views of maternal custody vs. paternal custody is allegedly as outrageous as the KKK or Osama bin Laden. Her web site lists herself as an investigator of family courts, but she does not have any professional credentials or has never raised any children.
- Paula S. Fass is a U.C. Berkeley History Professor that authored a book on Child Abduction in America. She’s a history professor not a psychiatrist, psychologist or social scientist that has no formal training in child abduction cases. Her book is inaccurate and depits her personal opinions on this subejct matter. We’ve seen her quoted by the Assoicated Press and wonder what educational training she has received to form her opinions. AP reporters should have contacted more reputable sources such as those that have authored research papers or studies published in the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s literature.
Please ask Faye if she remembers Sally 714. My girls are now both 21 years of age and I would love for them to meet her. She saved their lives. Even though we had to be in People Magazine, it has alllllll been worth it. Please, respond. We have waited for years to just say thank you!
It is wonderful to see someone thanking Faye for the hard work she has done! I am so happy for your success story! I am a journalism student and I am writing a research paper on “Brave Thinkers” and I have chosen to write about Faye because my mother and I almost had to use her services as well so I deeply respect her. I am sure you probably do not want to be hassled, but if there is any way at all that you would be willing to give me a short interview or even just a statement for my paper I would GREATLY appreciate it! I would be willing to do the interview over email or phone or whatever is most convenient for you. Please let me know!!
Hi,
I was just checking this site for fun and saw your request. I am the April Meyer in all these stories. If you would like to contact me, I might be able to help you.
April Robyn Curtis Meyer
April, by the time you read this, I may well be deep underground. I have been desperately trying to keep my daughter safe from a psychopathic monster who has escaped justice and brags openly about how he has sexually abused my baby for years. I have exhausted every legal channel. As of this writing there are no warrants out for me, no Amber alerts and I have signed papers from the mother (who lives with the psycho) asking me to leave. How can a desperate father contact you or someone like you? I want justice for my baby, but no-one, not the D.A, not police, not DCF or anyone else wants to protect her, in spite of many, many pages of confessions and psychosexual evaluations on this monster. Please help, thank you!
Listen Robbie, I would like to get involved in this underground network to help protect these horridly abused children from these slimepits. How do I go about this? How do I get in touch with this Faye Yeager? Of ourse I will submit to any investigation she would like. Please contact me ASAP, either by e-mail or 412 781 1147, best time to call is in the evening. God bless you!
I’m very interested in helping these families in hiding but don’t know who to contact so here is my number so they can contact me. 479-926-2639
Please contact me on my e-mail address as soon as possible.I need help please help this is not a joke.My granddaughter is in danger.
Hi Terry,
I guess your underground code name was “Sally 714″. Your girls are 21 years old, can you tell me what their life is like? Did they go to college? As adult children have they spoken to your former spouse? Did your former spouse re-marry and have children? What are their lives like compared to your children? What is your life like now? Did you remarry? Do you have a successful career now?
We’ve examined a significant number of cases and would like to hear about yours. There are also many members of the media visit our site that might be interested in your story.
BTW, if you want to thank Faye personally, if you have the economic means, book a room at her Bed and Breakfast in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Also, if you gave her any furniture, you might be able to see it there!
Thanks.
The Editor
The Children of the Underground Watch Newsletter
http://underwatch.wordpress.com/
Dear Editor,
It is obvious you have never been molested as an innocent child, or have ever come to know the fear, pain, and betrayal, or the life long emotional scars it leaves, not to mention in some cases repeats itself. So under those circumstances as a parent, sacrificing whether or not you have a successful career, or your child may or may not go to college or have a normal life??? So what are you proposing the child would have a normal life with a parent who is a molester? A normal life is based on love and safety, with or without a “successful career or college degree”. And I’d support the physical protection and emotional safety of being on the run with some one who loves me, than over your perspective of what is normal for a child being sexually, physically, or emotionally abused.
And one of the reasons why children are not getting the protection that they need from the judicial system, is probably because the heads that have the college degrees, and successful careers, are making the choices not to protection our children, or at the very least, not changing the laws to do so.
So now, what does that say about you? Well in my opinion, you’re doing a whole lot of talking and not saying very much at all. You’re responses are basically all redundant, demonstrating you are not a very advance thinker, or for that matter not even very intelligent, if this website is the only solution you can come up with to help or try and ensure the safety and protection of children. If you really knew what time it was, you would be praising, and kissing the ground Faye Yager walks on, as well as all “the leaders” that followed in her footsteps, supporting altruistic and bravest efforts. What are you doing, but staying all nice and safe behind your “let us all poo-poo Faye Yager” website? People like you, who talk, talk, talk, and say nothing useful that is genuinely helpful to those in trouble, are basically verbally masturbating in my opinion. So until you have the experiences of being innocently tortured by someone, and probably one of the only people in your life as a child that you depend on – SHUT UP… Because you never know, (and I would never wish this on anyone, not even you), you may come back in your next life time as a child on the run (that’s if your lucky) who’s been robbed of their innocence.
If you haven’t gotten it by now, the majority of people coming across your site, aren’t in agreement with you. And that would be for a very good reason – It’s apparent you have no clue what you’re talking about. You may want to rethink your perspective, because it doesn’t seem your “college education” has not gotten your compassion or understanding very far in the true reality of this lifelong trauma. A college degree, and successful career is attainable even for these children – so don’t prejudge, or presume.
Why don’t you put more of your energies in trying to change the law if you care so much that these children are subject to having to go underground, because you’re not doing so good in trying to change the opinions of those relying on, or supporting the underground necessity – And yes, REVERING what the Faye Yager’s of the world, because she is actually doing something about it and saving lives. While you just sit behind you whimpy website… Going off, and probably getting off, on your own “blab, blab, splish, splash”.
Get another hobby.
Whistle Blower,
What do you think of the Tonya Craft verdict? What about the $25 million dollar lawsuit her legal team filed against her accusers such as one of the moms, her former spouse and the social workers?
The Editor
What B&B is she locted? I looked up but found many.
[...] The Leaders [...]
Thank you for caring about protecting kids from angry, controlling, abusers. The courts have a long way to go. My grandsons are victims of the system because they are forced to visit their father who is on a sex-offender registry. My daughter is still trying to placate a lunatic even though they’ve been divorced for 8 years. Boys are 12 and 14. When someone at school stumbles on their father’s name… they’re gonna hate him, the court, and the mother that tried to protect them. Guardian ad litem loved their father! Custody and vistitation need to include risk assessments. Thanks again.
I keep tell you where a mass of children are, and the one’s behind it. I notice, if I post, it disappears, and nothing is heard. Makes you wonder if this website is here just to find the leaks and block them, and is part of the underground afterall.
Hmmmmm
I would like to add the names Diane Hofheimer, Charles Hofheimer, and Kristen Hofheimer as a legal team that needs to be watched. They helped facilitate a parental kidnapping in January 2009 in Fairfax VA when they helped the wife of a Russian national flee to Russia with their two sons. They have employed Joyanna Silberg and Viola Vaughan-Eden as expert witnesses frequently in their cases which often involve making accusations of sexual abuse in custody cases. They appear in the Small Justice “documentary” by Garland Weller as the hero attorneys who fight for the kids. they have brought in Richard Ducote on a pro hac vice basis in several of their cases. These people are dangerous, have disrupted untold numbers of families and bear close watching.
The Hofheimers are exceptional and talented attorneys and advocates who fight for Protective parents and children who are being abused. If they are dangerous, as stated, then I would agree, dangerous to those abusers who are up against them.
My husband Eddie has hurt me for 13 years. I tried the court system and that did not work. When my daughter was little he hurt her and I would call the police, as she got older ,he started hurting her the same ways as me and always telling her that it was my fault she had gotten hurt from him. He said if I had just keeping my mouth shut, then he would never have needed to hurt her. He said if I would just be a good wife none of this would have Had to happen to either of us. It is very bad and I have covered for him many, many times, so no one will really trust my word . I name so sorry that it took me so long to try and get out. We want help, can you please help us to get out of this. Thank You Denise
There is civil war coming to this great land of ours they the enemies of freedom will start it, we of the armed resistance will respond as necessary if you are an Enemy of the State beware your time will come for punishment those of you that are evil and violate the Constitution
You can expect arrest and a speedy trial as afford by the very same Constitution you violate ,sentence will be carried out to the fullest extent of the Constitution
An Angry father and soldier
I
would like to add the names Diane Hofheimer, Charles Hofheimer, and
Kristen Hofheimer as a legal team that needs to be watched. They helped
facilitate a parental kidnapping in January 2009 in Fairfax VA when
they helped the wife of a Russian national flee to Russia with their
two sons. They have employed Joyanna Silberg and Viola Vaughan-Eden as
expert witnesses frequently in their cases which often involve making
accusations of sexual abuse in custody cases. They appear in the Small
Justice “documentary” by Garland Weller as the hero attorneys who fight
for the kids. they have brought in Richard Ducote on a pro hac vice
basis in several of their cases. These people are dangerous, have
disrupted untold numbers of families and bear close watching.
Dear Member of the Armed Resistance…
OOOHHHH shaking in my undies.
You sound like you need professional help and if your wife ran with your kids, it’s probably because you’re such a nut case.
I suppose you think it’s “constitutional” to beat your wife/children or God forbid rape them.
Do America a favor and move to N. Korea or even better, volunteer to walk along the sides of the roads in Iraq and look for IEDs. This way no worthy soldier will get hurt.
God Bless America, but you can go straight to hell.
Dear Flag Waver,
Thanks for taking the time to comment on our Children of the Underground leaders page.
Parental kidnapping is one of the most heinous forms of domestic or family violence. In these and protective parent situations, the parental kidnapper or protective parent solely decides custody and disregards the court orders issued by family law court judges as well as Child Protective Services and recommendations by licensed child psychiatrists and psychologists.
One of the biggest failures of our criminal justice system since the ’80s was the failure to prosecute third party protective parent conspirators like Faye Yager. For that reason, just like the divorce industry, it created a protective parent industry of family law professionals hoping to profit every time a mother goes underground kidnapping her children. Even more pathetic was that government and charitable money that could have better been used to assist real victims of family violence and child abuse were used to defend and hide these parental kidnappers.
There is nothing constitutional about the protective parent cause. Luckily, the number of underground cases has significantly declined in recent years due to the prosecution of several cases that resulted in prison terms and large restitution fines against the underground parent by the courts. In addition, many of these convicted underground moms have supervised or no visitation with their children after the are caught.
Flagwaver, I hope you further enjoy “shaking in your undies” after reading this post. If you can present a better argument for the protective parent cause other than let’s see it!
The Editor
The Children of the Underground Watch
The notion that these lawyers are helping these penniless women for profit is rather absurd.
Dear Flag Waver,
It would be nice to hear a response from you!
The Editor
The Children of the Underground Watch
You should include anyone also associated with the Center for Judicial Excellence and Kathleen Russell. Although the PBS docu-bullshit-drama was aired as being a pretentious lie, a new version of the Underground Film is airing as Family Court Crisis, under the direction of Meera Fox, et. al, above.
http://centerforjudicialexcellence.org/
I am a journalism major and I am writing a research paper on Faye Yager. I have found lots of information but I would love to get a primary interview from Faye Yager herself (if at all possible) or someone who has worked with her or come in contact with her at all (positive or negative). If anyone knows Yager’s email or a way of contacting her or is willing to be interviewed themselves (by email or phone or any way that is convenient for you) please let me know!
Thank God that there are people in the world that put the “best interests” of children before the interest of angry, controlling parents. The Underground is an unfortunate necessity when courts fail both kids and their protective parent. Gambling with the lives of children has too often wound up in their continued victimization and sometimes fatal injury. American justice instructs us that it is better that some of the guilty go free in order to insure that no innocent are convicted. Our children have committed no crimes… shouldn’t we afford them (at least) the same protection as criminals?
G.rama,
As I mentioned to Teresa, what if it were your child or grandchild? Their father or stepmother interviewed them, took them to someone with the qualifications of Faye Yager (interior designer) and then went underground. They said the system did’t protect the children. Also, if that were the case then every family member of yours must be an abuser and maybe throw in some allegations of satanic ritual abuse by G.rama.
Lets work toward improving our nation’s child abuse professionals with education and training rather then support people like Faye Yager.
The Editor
My guess is the authors of this website, which by the way is trying to STOP Faye Yager not help her, are the very child molesters she is trying to protect these children from. There is a special place in hell for all of you child molesters. I know that not all parental abductions are fleeing abusers but I would not hesitate one instant to help the ones who are. If in doubt, protect the children from you monsters!
Hi Teresa,
Why would you assume this? Take a look at the Tonya Craft case! If some hysterical parents can interview their own children like Faye Yager did, and implant false memories – then why wouldn’y a narcisstic custodial embattled mom?
If you have a child or grandchild that a Faye Yager supporter helped conceal without any evidence, how would you feel?
The Editor
The Children of the Underground Watch
I am tired of hearing people talk about “evidence” when my FOUR children (16, 12, 10, 8) all disclosed child abuse to a GAL who testified on our behalf, only to have a judge grant my ex sole custody! I already had custody, but moved out of state; he contested and won. Within six weeks of said custody, he “stabbed” (as stated by my son) my 10 yr old with a pencil numerous times in the chest, layed on him so that he couldn’t breathe, and kicked him in the stomach; he made both boys 12 & 10 lose total control of their bladders, soaking their pants during a “disciplinary” session. How is slamming a child into a wall by their throat, suspending them in the air, acceptable discipline in Harrisonville, Missouri? (suburb of KC) A social worker visits them each month to keep dad on his toes and limit the abuse. My ex made me wet myself at least four times, it’s a degrading & horrifying experience. You literally think that you are going to die. My ex broke my ribs, blackend my eyes, gave me a concussion, kicked me in the stomach, broke my veins, attacked me when I was 7 months pregnant, hit me so hard that I had ringing in my left ear for several weeks, and even launched basketballs and full coke cans at my face, etc. Yet, the court worships him. I haven’t seen my children in one year, because he’s now denying me visitation. Now who’s narcisstic?
I have no position on the Underground, but I’m curious why you label so many of these women as “feminists” or “radical feminists” as a perjorative term?
Hi Holly,
In our experience following the Underground and their supporters, there are those that support their cause then those extremists like Faye Yager, Amy Neustein, Connie Valentine and Meera Fox. Their cause is more important than the facts and circumstances in a case. As we saw with the Tonya Craft case, their were extremists like Wendy Murphy.
The Editor
That and the Scientology crack, and the business about the guy who needs a haircut….The hills are alive with the sound of axes grinding.
[...] yet it should be. A victim can not fight without having the necessary training and tools in order to survive,” Murphy-Milano [...]
Dear Whistle Blower,
First of all, you it sounds like you are or believe you are an Adult Survivor of child abuse. What is known about Faye Yager is that she preyed on not only the hysterical, narcissistic and custodial-embattled mother’s of the ’80s and ’90s but on the short comings of our Child Protective Services system that was still in it’s infancy stages having been created with the Mondale Act of 1974. As we’ve seen with the recent Tonya Craft Case, it created what Ms. Craft called a perfect storm with some overzealous and under qualified child abuse professionals, most with their own personal cause or financial agenda enabling Faye Yager and these Underground Moms.
But Whistle Blower, this is the Year 2010. Our country’s Child Protective Services system has had 36 years to grow and mature and while not perfect we also saw in the Tonya Craft case, it’s certainly leaps and bounds better than the ’80s and ’90s which I assume is the time period in your case. Furthermore, our child abuse professionals which includes child psychiatrists and psychologists, social scientists and attorneys have had this time to gain knowledge about child abuse, false allegations of child abuse, interviewing techniques of child abuse victims and parental kidnapping.
Whistle Blower, what that means is that in the Year 2010, there is no longer a need or a toleration in America for a Faye Yager-like Children of the Underground or protective parent cause in which you have a person like Faye that has no formal training or advanced degree interviewing alleged child abuses victims then sending them into an underground network of safe houses. Also note that Faye and her Underground collected the personal assets of the underground mothers. If you visited Faye’s B and B in Fayetteville, North Carolina you might sit on the couch of a former underground mom.
See below for other comments:
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Dear Editor,
It is obvious you have never been molested as an innocent child, or have ever come to know the fear, pain, and betrayal, or the life long emotional scars it leaves, not to mention in some cases repeats itself. So under those circumstances as a parent, sacrificing whether or not you have a successful career, or your child may or may not go to college or have a normal life??? So what are you proposing the child would have a normal life with a parent who is a molester? A normal life is based on love and safety, with or without a “successful career or college degree”. And I’d support the physical protection and emotional safety of being on the run with some one who loves me, than over your perspective of what is normal for a child being sexually, physically, or emotionally abused.
- from The Editor: The problem with these underground cases is that most of the moms went underground without any real evidence that their children were being abused. In addition, most of these underground moms held a unreasonable or wrongful belief that their children were being abused and did not exhaust their legal remedies — they just kidnapped their children. This is my perspective! Another poster asked me what was my definition of an overzealous or radical child abuse professional or advocate. Your unreasonable belief that my perspective that child abuse was normal for a child is a perfect example of radical or extremist belief.
And one of the reasons why children are not getting the protection that they need from the judicial system, is probably because the heads that have the college degrees, and successful careers, are making the choices not to protection our children, or at the very least, not changing the laws to do so.
So now, what does that say about you? Well in my opinion, you’re doing a whole lot of talking and not saying very much at all. You’re responses are basically all redundant, demonstrating you are not a very advance thinker, or for that matter not even very intelligent, if this website is the only solution you can come up with to help or try and ensure the safety and protection of children. If you really knew what time it was, you would be praising, and kissing the ground Faye Yager walks on, as well as all “the leaders” that followed in her footsteps, supporting altruistic and bravest efforts. What are you doing, but staying all nice and safe behind your “let us all poo-poo Faye Yager” website? People like you, who talk, talk, talk, and say nothing useful that is genuinely helpful to those in trouble, are basically verbally masturbating in my opinion. So until you have the experiences of being innocently tortured by someone, and probably one of the only people in your life as a child that you depend on – SHUT UP… Because you never know, (and I would never wish this on anyone, not even you), you may come back in your next life time as a child on the run (that’s if your lucky) who’s been robbed of their innocence.
From the Editor: Whistle Blower, the purpose of our website is to recover kidnapped children, reunite them with their victim parents and to expose the overzealous or extremist child abuse professionals that prey on these underground parental kidnapping cases. If you proclaim yourself to be an advanced thinker then why would you accuse me of verbally masturbating and tell me to Shut Up? After hearing these words, one might possibly question the allegations in your situation.
If you haven’t gotten it by now, the majority of people coming across your site, aren’t in agreement with you. And that would be for a very good reason – It’s apparent you have no clue what you’re talking about. You may want to rethink your perspective, because it doesn’t seem your “college education” has not gotten your compassion or understanding very far in the true reality of this lifelong trauma. A college degree, and successful career is attainable even for these children – so don’t prejudge, or presume.
- from The Editor: Whistle Blower, as an advanced thinker, how could you possibly conclude that the majority of people coming across my site aren’t in agreement with me? Isn’t you that is prejudging and presuming?
Why don’t you put more of your energies in trying to change the law if you care so much that these children are subject to having to go underground, because you’re not doing so good in trying to change the opinions of those relying on, or supporting the underground necessity – And yes, REVERING what the Faye Yager’s of the world, because she is actually doing something about it and saving lives. While you just sit behind you whimpy website… Going off, and probably getting off, on your own “blab, blab, splish, splash”.
Get another hobby.
- from The Editor: Our website The Children of The Underground Watch focuses on advocating for enforcing the parental kidnapping laws. We would like to see the reunification of all parentally kidnapped children, even those adult survivors. Finally, Whistle Blower, there is compelling evidence that suggests that false allegations occurred in many of these prior cases. With untrained individuals like Faye and sone parents asking young children leading questions many fathers were falsely accused. What is your solution for these families?
looking for a friend mary ellen russell in her early 60′s about now she went under ground back in the 80′s with her daughter elizabeth mary ellen suspected that elizabeth was being molested by her father. . . Mel (her nickname)crossed my mind today never knew what happen to them they were from ventura co California when the father found out they were being hidden in Washington state she was arrested and charged with kitnapping crossing state line she was returned to Ventura Co. Mary Ellen was arraigned and let out on bail she stayed with me as she awaited trial eventually all charges were dropped but she lost custody of elizabeth just browsing I found your site
thank you martha
I say “neutral” because I will not engage in the mud-slinging that is occuring here, and therefore this is not directed at any one person.
When I was 3, my siblings were 6,8, and 10, my mother left my father because he had been abusing her and us. She took us with her to get us away from him. This is NOT a made up memory, it is a matter of fact, and a matter of court record. The allegations of abuse of wife and children were never denied, my father PROUDLY boasted in court about how he had to keep his wife and children “in line”, by letting us all “have it” once in a while. My siblings and I have more than just emotional scars, we have physical scars. A judge, due to the OVERWHELMING evidence against my father, ruled him an unfit father and called him an animal, this is all documented. Then, my abusive father, got a scuzzy lawyer and a scuzzy judge to overturn the decision, by claiming that my mother “kidnapped” us kids. They centered on how “kidnapping” was a FEDERAL offense, however, the abuse all of us endured at his hand was not even deemed a crime, the scuzzy judge stated “It is ALWAYS in the best interest of the child to be with their father, no matter what he has done”; and us kids were handed back to the father that had been molesting and beating us. My father thanked my mother for trying to protect us by beating her, LITERALLY to death, and the courts let him off saying that us children needed our father. All of our childhoods were filled with multiple forms of abuse(physical, sexual, mental, and emotional). MAYBE, just maybe, if my mother had something like an underground railroad, my father would not have been able to kill her, and he would not have been able to continue to abuse us until we got out of the house.
It is NOT better to be with a father like that, And, perhaps IF we would have been taken from him when we SHOULD have been, when I was 3; then just maybe we would not have all been GLAD when he died, but sad that it was as an old man. He murdered my mother abused all his children (including the ones he had by antoher woman), and he was allowed to live a long life.
The most HEINOUS crime, is the crime, ANY crime that is perpetrated against a child.
Hi, i’m Zoninersmor advanced joke, extraordinary site.
My daughter was kidnapped in 1980 by my mother. She was 4 years old and I didnt see her again for 26 years. In 1986 I tracked my mother to Florida. The police blew the lead and she escaped and was last known to be in Georgia. After that she fell off the map. The FBI told me they believed she had been helped by Faye Yeager. Faye Yeager cost me what was left of my daughters childhood. I want Faye Yeager to know that I never abused or neglected my child but my mother abused and neglected me. She also abandoned me to relatives and then finally took me back when I was four from the only childhood i ever knew with my grandmother. She was emotionally and physically abusive to me. My mother destroyed my life. I read somewhere that Faye Yeager could tell by “looking in someones eyes” if they were telling her the truth. Maybe Faye should have looked in my eyes before she took the word of my mentally unstable mother and helped destroy my daughters life and mine. When my mother was finally brought back after 26 years she received 3 years of probation and my daughter has been so brainwashed that she wants nothing to do with me or her father or anyone here. If Faye Yeager is your hero you better look elsewhere and anyone out there doing her work remember that people like my mother believe their own lies because they are mentally unstable and there is someone else involved who isnt getting a chance to be heard. I mourn every day for the loss of my daughter. My life was devastated and my daughter was raised by someone I wouldnt trust to raise an animal.
I believe I remember your case. Sadly this is an all too common outcome.
I appreciate your enthusiasm with regards to “Our country’s Child Protective Services system has had 36 years to grow and mature.” However, it’s simply not realistic. For instance, a mother in KCMO was investigated by social workers, up until the ultimate tortuous starvation and scalding to death of two of her triplets; the investigators had “formal training or advanced degree(s) interviewing alleged child abuses” and yet that had little or no meaning in saving these little boys from a horrible fate. In fact, MO lost a Federal grant ($3 million?)due to their FAILURE at protecting children on or about 2003. As far as, “in which you have a person like Faye that has no formal training” Ms. Yager has firsthand personal experience, with her own daughter. You cannot negate personal experience! Here is the link to the triplets story. http://lubbockonline.com/stories/102399/nat_1023990113.shtml
UPDATE: My violent ex has custody and is still denying me visitation; he won’t even let me telephone my children. The child protective services has an open case against him; but, it means very little. I was critized by the state for moving out of state; thus, prompting me to lose custody to begin with; and they actually had the audacity to ask me, “What is it that you want US to do?” I replied, “I want you to protect my children! That’s your job.”
I will tell you my story. My abusive ex, not only has paid his way out of trouble, but has paid attorneys to do what is called a “change of language” in orders, in order to legally steal our children. He has played the courts in two states. Went to a state, against FEDERAL law, and obtained a “pickup” order behind my back on a FRAUDULENT ORDER out of the original custody state. I was then somehow put in the national database for custodial abduction, falsely arrested, extradited, spending three weeks in jail, all the while our CONTACT info was on court record, and he was court ordered to call the children twice a week, and never did. Not to mention, the pick up order did not say he has custody, he still does NOT have custody, by LAW I do, however, he is able to hold the children hostage, not permitting me to see them, telling me I have to pay $200 at some supervised visitation center when there is no such order that says anything. I do not have no contact order, he sends back packages I mail the children. Attorney’s have bled me drive with their lose tongues, and lies. There is a perversion of justice going on in this system to such an extent that something needs to change. Women and children are being WAYLAID of their civil rights, its like its going back to when we had none. This site is extremely subjective and has no clue what the hell its talking about when it comes to people fighting for the rights of others. These men and women on the benches are unrighteous, acting as god, well there is only ONE GOD, and our children HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS from the day they are born. CPS, DFS, DHS are all a joke. What is going on is slave trade, human trafficking in the system, there is no mercy justice and faith. I was not on the run and this happened to me, I cannot imagine what women (and men, there are men who are abused) and children who are on the run are going through. This is a national crisis, and we are responsible for our neighbors and what is happening to them.
Dear Anonymous, it sounds like a move away or a Family Abduction was a crime committed by both you and your former spouse. When you decided to have children in America, your legal rights as a parent now fell under the jurisdiction of the county legal system of your children’s residence. You can’t just pick up and leave, even if you had a very good reason without an agreement with your spouse, former spouse or other parent of your child(ren). It sounds like both of you broke the law and you are now crying victim. When your children were born and/or you got married, these were very happy days of your life. However, now you and your Ex are at war and using the children as pawns. It sounds like the best course of action is to agree to a co-parent for the best interests of your children, swallow your pride and move on with your life…that’s the real National Crisis.
btw, I was never CHARGED or ARRAIGNED!
I am sorry, but you have no clue what your talking about. Clearly, if I committed a crime I would have been punished. Unfortunately, the true criminals are not. Here is why, you have men who have set themselves up as “god” & have no clue what is going on. Good luck to you on your future judgments. My children and I are the reason the Messiah came, its the same system, 2000 years later, bribes, no mercy, no justice and no faith. NO spirit of the law. For every law passed, there are 3 more, so you stay in the system. Every motion filed is a bond, do you know that? You might want to do your research to understand what is truly happen on the slave market called the court.
under the constitution, we are free, its supposed to be self-government, not elite rule, or have you forgotten that. Its called bondage, what we were set free from, is back. Wake up
Anonymous, with all this talk about slave trade and bondage, some including the child custody professionals would recommend you seek therapy or group therapy. You need to present yourself to the courts as a good enough parent but most importantly be emotionally available for your children.
i know faye y. and was hid for over 20 yrs. my son who is now grown wanted to see his father’s side of the family. we bought a house near by and now, once again have problems with people trying to break in our house and/ or people outside our house making noises for unknown reasons. several police reports have been made. we have had to get a permanent restraint on his “dad” and his “sister”. we don’t get much sleep right now because we are trying to catch the “ones” that are making noises and climbing on our roof at night. “they have left evidence” by tearing up the shingles on the roof. i went throught the underground and thank god for it. faye y. in my opinion is a beautiful lady and very strong. no, she may not be perfect but i think that she is smarter than a lot of our court systems, knows what is happening to our children, and is smarter than the average bear…..ha ha…..i respect her for what she does. oh and by the way—our case remains unsolved. but, i kept my child safe…thanks to the underground….
Vickie, let’s say your son gets married, has a child and your daughter-in-law goes underground with your grandchild. She kidnaps your grandchild and your son has no opportunity to bring the matter to any Family Court. She has decided not to trust your son because of his past. Instead, she goes into the new protective parent underground. 20 years later, she and your now grown grandchild move back to your community. How would you and your son feel if that happened?
The Editor
I am not saying that the underground has all the answers. I have my x-husbands family that were very tramatized and did not see my son for years. His grandmother on this fathers side died wanting to see him..This hurts me but, I had to do what I had to do to protect him when he was a child…My son is married but has schizophrenia…he will probably never have a child. So don’t worry…I will miss out on having a grandchild. We are not winner’s for leaving –just simply doing what we have to do. Is that hard to understand? There were over 20 children involved in our case….not to mention the name of a murdered man…..What would you have done? Let him go for a visit.
I need to get out of this fucked up mess with two kied can anyone help me before i die????
Can anyone help me before me and my two kids are dead???
I am a mother of a little boy who is going on 3 yrs of age my son lives in Sparks, Nevada and just last year my ex recived (Full Custody) Of our son. My ex reqrested (Soul Custody) and had no grounds to ask for such a thing. My ex was arrested in 2009 on Easter Sunday for battery agaist me someone reported to the cops as we were fighting and he attempted to push me down the stairs of are second floor apartment and over the railing. I dropped the charges on my ex for the battery thing as he did not hit me!. Two months later my ex hit me and blooied my nose we were at that time going to cousling with a cousler through Social Services. He had me so scared i did not call the cops after the battery thing when he blooied my nose. Now he has my son he is in Nevada and i reside in California my ex has two other children his oldest (James) and younger (Joey) and ours (John). My son will be 3 in January of this year 2011. and my ex has not started potty training him. Also he is sleeping him in a playpen with a borken mattress. Both my ex and my oldest stepson James have problems with abuse i am greatly concerned about my child. I need help if you can help me!. My ex has lied to the courts his family is aware of what is going on and will not report it to the athorites ”Please” help. Nicole Magincalda
I don’t know how I feel about this site. I was raised to believe that you do what’s best for your children… If that means their father really is abusing them then you get out of there, even if the judicial system ruled against that. I’m not saying that this isn’t always the case, and some parents will take advantage of this.
I can, however, tell you that the people who you may have to deal with in the underground system aren’t all people to be praised. I’ve never met Faye, and if her real intentions are to help children, then I have nothing negative to say. I have met others though, and have been very close to them… and I can tell you that because of these individuals I don’t believe that the underground system is as perfect and praiseworthy as some people say it is. I don’t think either side of the issue is right. It doesn’t always go one way or the other.
I’ve similarly tried to escape my father, but within the legal system. I can tell you that it isn’t easy, they can make it exceptionally hard. Especially when you’re fighting against someone with money and resources while you have none. So I can understand someone’s fear and anxiety to leave – I want that for my siblings since they’re both still under age. As a matter of fact, I’m sure if you knew my father, then some people may be clearly shocked by which side of the issue he’s playing on considering the reputation he’s made for himself otherwise.
Yeah and if your “best” is absconding with your children and denying the father the right to be with his children then you deserve whatever it is that you get.
i liked your comment. yes, their are some flaws in the underground—however, it is better to deal with flaws sometimes than have your child protected than let that child grow up in it. i liked your response though. i left with my son for over 20 yrs. then, he decided if he wanted to be involved with certain people. our case has never been resolved—-noone ever spent time in jail. he was about 3 or 4 when i found out. he was hospitalized at least twice before the age of 5 with private pshicatric tx. today, he is 29 and has schizophrenia. what is so sad is that our society and the government involved never, ever, tried to resolve the issue; not to mention that their was over 20plus other children involved and at least one murder………my son is safe, but scarred forever. it has been a long journey, but i will always be grateful for the underground……
Please someone help us my sister is raising her grandson and his biological dad has visitation rights and has sexually violated him and the system will not change their order of visitation. My sisters’ daughter passed away last December so is not here to testify of the abuse she encountered when married to this monster. The GAL is a flipping joke..My sister has NO money for an attorney is desperate to save her grandson from his own Dad. My nephew has also talked about sucide if he has to continue visiting his Dad.. My nephew is mentally challenged since birth and until his Mother died his Dad wanted nothing to do with him…PLEASE HELP SAVE HIM!!
I wish i knew how to help my daughter she is being wipped with a belt accross her legs. Both the step parent and parent admitted this to cps. Childrens services says they counciled the parent and step parent not to hit her with objects as this is illegal. BUT BECAUSE MY CHILD DID NOT HAVE BROKEN BONES the report was unsubstianted in wi.
The last thing my child told me is that a rag was held in her mouth…. and it hurt her mouth. I tried to get a protective order for my child and failed . What now? I dont have custody of her.. I feel powerless.
the system is so screwed up where im at…my little girl told me her dad did in 2009 so we leave and now he is getting custody bc they dont believe her and has been taken from me and family and i and her therapist believe her, but i cant afford lawyer and i fear for her life bc it will soon be to where she will fear herself. sshe is only 5…please help me ….but who will no1 because of how the world is today..
it only didnt effect her but me too. i went thru alot of things due to it and now am desperate and gonna handle it myself if i have to somehow
I want top help these families in any way but don’t know how. Call me please. 479-926-2639